Personality Clash: e.m.m.a + Dexplicit
On the art of production...
*em.m.a* and *Dexplicit* are two producers who can't be placed into any simple category.
Sure, both have genre-specific releases against their name, but if you dig a little deeper, you'll find that nothing either party has released plays by the rules.
It's a trait of individuality which is sorely needed in club culture, one that both artist wants to foster and support in others.
e.m.m.a's new album 'Indigo Dream' is out now on Local Action, and it follows her successful producer girls workshops - production workshops aimed at women.
Dexplicit, meanwhile, has been busy, with his fantastic new EP 'Digital Monk' out now on the Pastel Prism label (run by e.m.m.a, as it happens).
The two sat down for a lengthy conversation, covering production, club culture, and a mutual desire to defy conformity.
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*e.m.m.a*- So I’m gonna start with a question that I don’t know the answer to.. How did you come up with the track name 'Digital Monk'? Cos as we know I got the wrong end of the stick first, and thought you were referring to Friar Tuck.
*Dexplicit*- The intro of the track, the plugin I used is literally singing monks. I think it might even be named monks. Then it shifts into the more digital side, and sits between the two different worlds. So I thought let’s go for that.
*e.m.m.a*- Where did your interest in monks and choral work come from?
*Dexplicit*- I’ve been trying lots of different sounds lately. I’ve been purposefully trying to find epic sounds, and to me, monks sound epic. Choral sounds fit in perfectly with epic sounds, so after experimenting with some harmonies, it just came out right.
*e.m.m.a*- I can see that, it adds a lot of cinematic space. Also it’s not easy to do, from a production point of view, to make choirs sound human and get the emotional chord changes, which you mastered on both counts. How do you go about making sounds ‘human’?
*Dexplicit*- I figured there’s two things I can identify which makes things sound more human. Firstly, when humans play notes, not all are at the same velocity. I used to play piano when I was young, so I can remember to take into account which fingers hit the notes first. In recent years I’ve moved things slightly off the beat. In relation to the other instruments in the song, it gives the illusion of swing.
*e.m.m.a*- I don’t think I do that enough, apart from with melodies, I want them to sound like they are done in one take, rather than laboured over. I could do with more swing.
*Dexplicit*- I didn’t notice that at all. Harvey from So Solid said that to me once. ‘What do you mean you don’t put swing on your tunes?’ I would have put money that you were putting swing on the beats. That is really interesting. Remember e.m.m.a, any plugins you want I can send you.
*e.m.m.a* - I need a new bloody laptop now to be honest. There will be no stopping me once I have enough memory.
*Dexplicit*- Imagine what that’s like. You know when I wrote Gotham, I had to stop that. I was trying to make an even bigger orchestral piece but the computer just wasn’t having it. One day, one day. I’ve got a question for you now. Why did you name the track on your album after Ryan Gosling? [Ryan Gosling in Space].
*e.m.m.a*- Well, obviously Ryan Gosling has contributed quite a lot to art and I don’t think he’s quite got the credit for everything he’s done. For example, Drive, Only God Forgives and his directorial debut Lost River. That whole sound that he’s associated with in those films kinda got me through my 20s.
When it was announced he was going to be in Blade Runner II, I was trying to imagine a Blade Runner sound with a Ryan Gosling influence, and came up with that track. But subsequently he actually did a film in space, which is weird. It’s like I had a premonition.
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*Dexplicit*- OK I have another question. What does it feel like making an album that goes so against the grain. You made something - I’m sure when you look around at your peers - that no-one else is doing that. They’re not pushing into the soundtrack world as you are. What does it feel like putting this work out?
*e.m.m.a*- I start from a point of view of - what am I not hearing and what can I bring to the table. I suppose it feels a bit like throwing a grenade. It’s me creating my identity. The thing about the album, which I enjoyed, I wanted to build a world where each track played a part. I thought...I want to escape into another world and I’m going to have to create it myself.
Isn’t that kinda like what you’re doing? Kinda like, they have to build a whole world in Red Dead, what I got from your music is an imagined world where it removes me from my day to day and evokes feelings. Is this your motivation too - is this what you set out to do?
*Dexplicit*- I don’t really have that in my head when I start from a blank canvas but it definitely kicks in when the song takes form. So with 'Gotham' or 'Digital Monk', when I start working on the intro, the world starts to emerge. And then I build on that. And in Gotham I did the string section first - and then I doubled down on that direction. ‘World building’ is an interesting phrase. That’s kinda what happens.
*e.m.m.a*- Yeah I only heard of that phrase recently and found it really interesting. And it reminded me of what I try to do with music. Your intros are very epic and boundaryless and soaring. They set the scene and emotional intent, and then it takes you off on a wild journey.
*Dexplicit*- When you make tunes do you have an idea in your head first or do you just go into it?
*e.m.m.a*- I start from a mood, which is somewhere between happy and sad. ‘Cos that’s what life is - light and shade. The structure is determined by whatever is inspiring me at the time, whether it’s the 80s, or rap, etc. I’ve never really felt at home in any genre, which is why I’m kind of a lone ranger.
Dex, you’ve been embraced by a big scene, and grassroots movement, for years, which I haven’t had the pressure of. How do you exist in that - in terms of how aware you are of your relationship with people who have joined you at diff stages of your career?
*Dexplicit*- Since the beginning I’ve gone to great efforts to not get pigeonholed - garage, hip-hop, grime, bassline - but what happened was as my grime music soared in popularity compared to anything else I doubled down on it and ran with it. It’s a gift and a curse. Eg. when I was in bassline, the people who only know you for bassline, you’re not satisfying them anymore. And when I was doing bassline, people in grime were like ‘what.. why... what’s going on?!’
The good thing is, I don’t think I’ve ever succumbed to it. When I make grime or bassline or any of those things, I try to not sound like whatever is going on at the time. So I think people are used to me trying new things. 'Digital Monk' has been a great opportunity for me to be formless, and just go with it. Putting it out on Pastel Prism has exposed me to a world where you are allowed to do that and that was great.
*e.m.m.a*- You know what Dex, when I asked u to do the release I didnt even think of anything to do with that. When you said ‘freedom to do what you want’ I was like ‘what?’ I just knew from your melodies that we have something in common, ‘cos your melodies mean something and I hope mine do too.
I know what you mean though cos when I listen to my old stuff, eg. 'Blue Gardens', it was very UK funky oriented. But when I think back, I was trying to add my melodies onto something people recognise, like a trojan horse. I was trying to get a seat at the table, get DJs to play me etc. You think it’s part of the wider game. But now I know I don’t have to worry about that stuff and can have more freedom.
*Dexplicit*- When you sent me the album early, to me it just sounded like freedom. It inspired me you know. I thought. ‘Hold on a minute. How has e.m.m.a just produced a whole album of soundtracks? Why can’t I do that? I wanna be free too.’
*e.m.m.a*- Hahahahahaha!
*Dexplicit*- You were just doing you, unapologetically.
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*e.m.m.a*- Thanks Dex. Isn’t it insane to think we only met cos P Jam volunteered you for producergirls? After I put a tweet out about needing help with FL Studio.
*Dexplicit*- That’s insane - you didn’t know P Jam before that?
*e.m.m.a*- No, not at all. P Jam DM'd and offered to help. What I like about it is that before we met, the scene felt a bit toxic and uninviting which is why I wanted to start producergirls. It was either try and change the game or leave the game at that point. But you very much have been working to a similar ethos in terms of access to knowledge and it’s very important to you that you share what you know with the next generation. When did you start realising that was something you wanted to do, and felt a responsibility to do?
*Dexplicit*- I think I've had that way of thinking for a long time because that’s how I came in, someone who was older than me, he gave a 17 year old producer, that was starting out, a chance.
Just from my experience, I had to do it all myself. How can me - as a producer of 20 years - how can I not pass on what I know? That just feels ridiculous. That’s one of the reasons why I jumped at the opportunity to join produergirls - to pass on knowledge to people that want to learn. Now I’ve worked out ways that I can directly push information to people, through my Youtube channel.
*e.m.m.a*- I know that if I wasn’t shown the basics by someone else, I would never have got round to it. You need someone with a bit of charisma, who u respect the music of, to sit through content on it. Loads of Youtube videos are terrible EDM guys. Which is why your Youtube channel is really important, in drawing back the curtain and removing the mystique of how it’s done.
*Dexplicit*- Given the state of the scene when it started, do you think it’s changed since then?
*e.m.m.a*- I think the reason why PG happened, is that it was a response to a number of experiences, where I didn’t feel welcomed. While this was going on, other things started happening - people started calling out Boiler Room for all the trolling, Me Too happened. Privilege is being dismantled, but it’s happening slowly. It shows the power of direct action. You can be the change, you can’t wait around for things to happen.
*Dexplicit*- I love that - be the change.
*e.m.m.a*- So one final question - so now you’re feeling like you can put out stuff that is more soundtrack driven, what kinda things are inspiring you for your next work?
*Dexplicit*- I still want to make more cinematic stuff - cinematic grime. I’m really feeling that, but I have to be careful ‘cos i can’t just keep pulling out the choirs.
*e.m.m.a*- Yes you can!
*Dexplicit* I’m thinking about pulling in sounds from around the world - India, Brazil .. incorporate some new things that way. I want to do cinematic grime, I don’t want to rinse the same obvious Hollywood trailer sounds, so that’s where I’m gonna try and mix it up a bit. Marry traditional instruments from around the world with synths. I like mixing them together. Nature v. Machine.
That’s interesting then - what about you? Where do you go from here - are you on the film soundtrack vibe or do you bring it back to contemporary?
*e.m.m.a* - I don’t know Dex, I have no bloody idea. I’ve spent about seven years arriving at what I did, but actually I can already listen to it and hear where I wanna go next, soundtrack wise, based on what I’m learning.
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